Hector wrote:
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Fine then those 2 questions are:
1. Did the Quran permit the Muslim man to have sex with his Right-Hand-Possession? Yes or No.
2. Did the Quran permit the Right-Hand-Possession to refuse to have sex with her Muslim master, such that the Muslim master must accept her refusal or be punished for it? Yes or No.
You can answer it now if you like. It only requires 2 syllables.
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Hector wrote:
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1. Did the Quran permit the Muslim man to have sex with his Right-Hand-Possession? Yes or No.
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Hector wrote:
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2. Did the Quran permit the Right-Hand-Possession to refuse to have sex with her Muslim master, such that the Muslim master must accept her refusal or be punished for it? Yes or No.
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Doubtless wrote:
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It still is a very valid question. What ever RHP means, what does 4:24 means when Allah allows sex with married RHP women? I would appreciate a clear answer from AB, or Danish, or anyone else who wants to offer one.
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Hello All
Some still trying hard to prove me wrong, which is fine with me but I only accept Quran evidences anything else will never be admissible in my books.
Some still think that 4:24 is talking about raping or sort of indecency, how the hell this can be possible?, I don't really know, well 4:24 is talking about a legal sexual relationship that can be either marriage on papers or de facto relation ship which is approved by the west in fact it is about marriage as I will prove to you, let's pick up the verses starting from 4:22,
22: And marry not woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way.
23: Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers' daughters and sisters' daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
24: And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
25: And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your right hands possess from among your believing maidens; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their masters, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[The Quran ; 4:22-25]
وَلاَ تَنكِحُواْ مَا نَكَحَ آبَاؤُكُم مِّنَ النِّسَاء إِلاَّ مَا قَدْ سَلَفَ إِنَّهُ كَانَ فَاحِشَةً وَمَقْتًا وَسَاء سَبِيلاً (22)
حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُمْ أُمَّهَاتُكُمْ وَبَنَاتُكُمْ وَأَخَوَاتُكُمْ وَعَمَّاتُكُمْ وَخَالاَتُكُمْ وَبَنَاتُ الأَخِ وَبَنَاتُ الأُخْتِ وَأُمَّهَاتُكُمُ اللاَّتِي أَرْضَعْنَكُمْ وَأَخَوَاتُكُم مِّنَ الرَّضَاعَةِ وَأُمَّهَاتُ نِسَآئِكُمْ وَرَبَائِبُكُمُ اللاَّتِي فِي حُجُورِكُم مِّن نِّسَآئِكُمُ اللاَّتِي دَخَلْتُم بِهِنَّ فَإِن لَّمْ تَكُونُواْ دَخَلْتُم بِهِنَّ فَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَحَلاَئِلُ أَبْنَائِكُمُ الَّذِينَ مِنْ أَصْلاَبِكُمْ وَأَن تَجْمَعُواْ بَيْنَ الأُخْتَيْنِ إَلاَّ مَا قَدْ سَلَفَ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا (23)
وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاء إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ كِتَابَ اللّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَأُحِلَّ لَكُم مَّا وَرَاء ذَلِكُمْ أَن تَبْتَغُواْ بِأَمْوَالِكُم مُّحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُم بِهِ مِنْهُنَّ فَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً وَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِيمَا تَرَاضَيْتُم بِهِ مِن بَعْدِ الْفَرِيضَةِ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا (24)
وَمَن لَّمْ يَسْتَطِعْ مِنكُمْ طَوْلاً أَن يَنكِحَ الْمُحْصَنَاتِ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ فَمِن مِّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُم مِّن فَتَيَاتِكُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَاللّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِإِيمَانِكُمْ بَعْضُكُم مِّن بَعْضٍ فَانكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذْنِ أَهْلِهِنَّ وَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ مُحْصَنَاتٍ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحَاتٍ وَلاَ مُتَّخِذَاتِ أَخْدَانٍ فَإِذَا أُحْصِنَّ فَإِنْ أَتَيْنَ بِفَاحِشَةٍ فَعَلَيْهِنَّ نِصْفُ مَا عَلَى الْمُحْصَنَاتِ مِنَ الْعَذَابِ ذَلِكَ لِمَنْ خَشِيَ الْعَنَتَ مِنْكُمْ وَأَن تَصْبِرُواْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (25)
-> Verse 22, see, it is clearly talking about marriage, can you see the word Tankaho, تَنكِحُواْ?, well it means as follow: 22: And marry not woman whom your fathers married, except what has already passed; this surely is indecent and hateful, and it is an evil way. , i.e. we are talking about the women that WE CAN'T MARRY, the next verse is adding to the list of women that we can't marry:
-> Verse 23, we should not also marry : Forbidden to you are your mothers and your daughters and your sisters and your paternal aunts and your maternal aunts and brothers' daughters and sisters' daughters and your mothers that have suckled you and your foster-sisters and mothers of your wives and your step-daughters who are in your guardianship, (born) of your wives to whom you have gone in, but if you have not gone in to them, there is no blame on you (in marrying them), and the wives of your sons who are of your own loins and that you should have two sisters together, except what has already passed; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
-> Verse 24, is the rest of the list of women that we should not marry : وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاء إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ, i.e. And all married women except those whom your right hands possess, the translation is wrong of course, it should mean as follow : And all married women except those whom your OATHS possess, this makes great sense indeed because this exception of marrying an already married Malakat Aymanikum does not really violate the Sharia of Allah because being in the status of Malakat Aymanikum means that no one from her family is caring for her even the husband, indeed in Islam if the husband does not care for his wife she can seek divorce and marry another with ease, in the case of Malakat Aymanikum obviously an oath was taken in the past because no one cared for that woman even a husband therefore she is free to marry another, again the verse is talking about proper marriage NOT BLOODY RAPING, the rest of the verse is clearly stating the agreement those men should have with the Malakat Aymanikim women whom they marry or just have a de facto relation with them because as we read that Malakat Aymanikum are lawful to marry even if they are already married : and lawful for you are (all women) besides those , and here is what the men should do : provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise., clearly a proper and lawful relationship that protects Malakat Aymanikum and raise her to a properly married wife on papers
- Verse 25, as we have seen above that the verses are talking about the lawful women for marriage including those already married Malakat Aymanikum whom are in the care of men under oath, verse 25 is telling us that those men who are not very rich and can't afford to marry from the list of allowed and self sustained women , then they should seek marriage from Malakat Aymanikum if they have any, Allah is even very specific to chose YOUNG WOMEN, please be aware that the word Fatah means Young Woman, it does not means slave or servant, it applies to any woman for example we can have a slave who is a young woman i.e. she is a Fatah, we can have Malakat Aymanikum who is a young woman i.e. she is a Fatah, we can also have a self sustained young woman who is also a Fatah, i.e. Fatah means Young Woman, i.e. verse 25 is telling those not rich men who want to marry and can't afford marrying a the self sustained women to marry from فَتَيَاتِكُمُ, i.e. from THE YOUNG WOMEN of MALAKAT AYMANIKUM in there care if they have any, the condition are also that those young Malakat Aymanikum women must be believers and the consent of their families MUST be taken before marriage as well they must pay the dowry :And whoever among you has not within his power ampleness of means to marry free believing women, then (he may marry) of those whom your OATH possess from among your believing YOUNG WOMEN; and Allah knows best your faith: you are (sprung) the one from the other; so marry them with the permission of their FAMILIES, and give them their dowries justly, they being chaste, not fornicating, nor receiving paramours; now, if those (has been) Malakat Aymanikum committed indecency after marriage then they should have 50% of the punishment of a self sustained woman as I explained in my previous comments, and when they are taken in marriage, then if they are guilty of indecency, they shall suffer half the punishment which is (inflicted) upon free women. This is for him among you who fears falling into evil; and that you abstain is better for you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful., this is a case of understanding to their mental status due to the hardship inflicted upon them by Allah hence being Malakat Aymanikum
Salam
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