Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: 79:30 , Attn brother SOA
Hello All
Brother SOA asked me this question yesterday:
SlaveofAllaah wrote:
079.030
YUSUFALI: And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); PICKTHAL: And after that He spread the earth,
SHAKIR: And the earth, He expanded it after that.
SlaveofAllaah wrote:
Brother AB, Zakir Naik and Harun Yahya, use the word dahaha from root word dahv which is round but exactly oval.
Zakir Naik coz to prove scientific miracle in the Quran use the word dahaha as Ostrich egg but hte 3 translators have said as above. I wanna know what you feel. I want you take on this. Thansk
I asked brother SOA if I can reply to him in public and he welcomed my proposal,
Thanks brother SOA for your question, I actually love all these sorts of questions that talk science, while I'm not a fan of boosting the miracle of the Quran through whatever Muslims call scientific miracles of the Quran, I'm fully aware of all those so called scientific miracles and certainly took a lot of my time to study them, I do believe that they are scientific miracles but at the same time i don't really believe that our God needs to prove the miracle of the Quran through scientific statements in it, rather through the linguistics of the language used and a challenge to write something like it.
Regarding the shape of earth that it is not a perfect ball, I was actually envloved in a discussion on FM 8 months ago regarding this subject, I finally allocated it so let me post it exactly as is:
Brother OracleMir asked:
Salams
I have read at various places on the net that Quran was the first to annouce earth is not flat. Here is one example from islamicwell.com
"Shape of earth: Quran 79:30. Amazingly, the arabic term is dahaba (whose root refers to egg shaped) is used for the earth. To be more exact, it normally refers to an ostrich egg which, like the earth, is more or less geospherical The fact that the earth was round (not flat) was established only in 1597 C.E. when Sir Francis Drake sailed around the world approximately 900 years after the Quran was revealed. "
I noticed that freemind.org translation does not contain a word egg at all.
79:30 And the land after that He spread out.
Can any one elaborate on the arabic word "dahaba". Does that really mean ostrich egg? Or did muslims just introduce the word egg to twist the argument towards favor of science?
Thanks
This is the first reply brother OM got:
I replied:
Peace
Actually the word "Dahaha" is a verb and not a noun, it is not commonly known as an ostrich egg but it is commonly known as follow:
Please note the verb is "Daha", the extra "ha" at the end, is called Damir that is referring to the earth
Daha : a verb to make something into a ball that looks like an egg, i.e. it is not a perfect ball
Peace
Brother OM replied:
Salams Ahmed Bahgat
So you are saying the word Daha mean an imperfect ball. That means Quran is calling this earth an imperfect ball. That is really amazing. That is a scientific miracle.
If that is the case then I am wondering why freeminds.org translation did not use a word "ball" or "egg" in the translation of verse 79:30? Instead it used the word "spread out"?
79:30 And the land after that He spread out.
I responded to brother OM as follow:
I replied:
Salam brother
Yes mate, i actually remember the first time I read this verse, it was abut 20 years ago and was sitting with a friend and we were reading the Quran then when we read the word Dahaha me and him were speechless, please bear in mind that me and him are native Arabic speakers so when we read the word it was clear to us that it is a miracle
I think they got mixed up with another Quran verse describing the earth:
Allah said in the Quran, "Wa Al Ard Madadnaha" which means to spread out, the word Dahaha is totally different meaning.
There is also another verse that even suggest the earth diameter at the poles is shorter than the diameter at the equator:
All popular translators translated the above verse wrong
The verse is telling us to look at the earth and see how Allah is reducing it at its "Atrafiha", which clearly means "Its Poles" i.e Allah is reducing the earth from its poles
Somehow they translated 13:41 as follow which is totally wrong btw:
YUSUFALI: See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? (Where) Allah commands, there is none to put back His Command: and He is swift in calling to account.
PICKTHAL: See they not how we aim to the land, reducing it of its outlying parts? (When) Allah doometh there is none that can postpone His doom, and He is swift at reckoning.
SHAKIR: Do they not see that We are bringing destruction upon the land by curtailing it of its sides? And Allah pronounces a doom-- there is no repeller of His decree, and He is swift to take account. [The Quran ; 13:41]
I see all three translators above are very wrong indeed
Peace
OM replied:
Salams AhmedBahgat
Nice to know that arabic speaking people were also amazed after reading this verse. So that means this is not just twisting of words. The verse actually hinted the earth being spherical.
I tried translating the word Atrafiha from arabic to english using online dictionaries. Most of them translating this word as "borders". So does that mean the word "pole" did not exist at that time in the arabic dictionary? and "border" was the closest match available? Or does "Atrafiha" actually means pole?
This is indeed another great verse you have pointed out.
I replied as follow:
Salam bro
Yeh man, in fact i truly believe that the Arabs should be the most impressed humans because they know the language and they know that no Arabic speaker can write something like it
OracleMir wrote:
I tried translating the word Atrafiha from arabic to english using online dictionaries. Most of them translating this word as "borders".
The word never means borders bro, i can assure you that, in fact I have two examples:
1) The first is just hearsay, the hands and the legs of any human are called Atraf, i.e. the ends of the human body
2) the second is from the Quran, remember when Allah told us to perform Salat at the "Tarafai Al Nahar", this means to perform Salat the ends of the Nihar
in the second example above, Allah was specific using the root Taraf in a double format "Tarafai" i.e TWO ENDS
in the human body it is plural, because we have 4 ends (2 hands and 2 legs)
In verse 13:41, it was used in plural form, this is the only counter argument I found as we know that the earth has two poles "physically", or could it be that there are more than one pole logically?, it is quite possible to be understood as many poles, exactly as the Quran told us that there are many Easts and many Wests,
if the poles are the two points where the earth rotates around an axis, then they will stay two if that axis is stationary, but the earth changes this axis of rotation every day as it rotates around itself and around the sun, which results in different Easts and Wests, hence I can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t see any problem that the earth has many LOGICAL poles as well this is just an idea and not something I lean on
13:41 can also be understood as a sign of the global warming which causes a continues reduction to the poles ice caps
also 13:41 can be understood as the length of the axis or rotation should keep decreasing due to the centrifugal force coming from the rotation of the earth that causes the diameter around the equator to expand, a very well known physic law
see the miracle of the Quran bro, it is endless and whatever you understand the sign, it, still runs in harmony with the science as it stands at any time through the time line
OracleMir wrote:
So does that mean the word "pole" did not exist at that time in the arabic dictionary? and "border" was the closest match available? Or does "Atrafiha" actually means pole?
This is indeed another great verse you have pointed out.
Sure the word poles didn't exist at that time as they thought the earth was flat anyway
and as i stated bro the word can hardly mean borders, the arabic word for borders is "Hidood" and i was never aware that ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Atraaf????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? can metaphorically mean ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Borders????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, but I know that it means "ENDS" and the Quran showed it to us in the Salat verse
There is actually another verse that I 100% believe that it tells us indirectly about another sign, which is the rotation of earth around its axis
peace mate
Brother OM replied:
Salams AhmedBahgat
Thanks for such an elaborative reply. It was very informative.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
There is actually another verse that I 100% believe that it tells us indirectly about another sign, which is the rotation of earth around its axis
If you get a chance, do let me know the verse number.
I replied:
No worries bro
I'm glad you made sense out of it despite all the grammar and spelling errors, to be honest bro, i write my comment once and for all while not using ms word, i have no time bro to mock around, in fact my particpation in forums make me always running behind in my work that i do for living, but all under control Alhamdullelah
along with the verse, i have to post my analysis mate, because it is my own discovery and everytime i read this verse it stuns me, i can see the clear scientifc miracle in it while many hardly can see it even native Arabic speakers that I dicussed it with them, it is a tough one but if you mange to understand the logic which is common sense logic btw you will clearly see the miracle
give a few minutes untill i find it mate
talk to you soosn
peace
Then I added the following comment:
Here we go brother, please read it carefully and tell me honestly what you think, even if it sounds BS to you:
This is a tough one to understand but it is all logical and need a rational brain to understand it.
Firstly,1400 years ago the understanding was the earth is stationary and everything in the sky rotates around it including the sun, so 1400 years ago they considered the sun is the object that moves around the earth somehow, this understanding was surely flawed in conjunction with their wrong understanding that the earth is flat and not round, so they thought the sun appears for its daily course to the whole flat earth at once then disappear to the other uninhibited flat side before it appears again as it rotates around the flat earth,
So when the following verse was revealed that says the sun runs to a destined point, no one wondered as they understood already that the sun moves around the earth, i.e. the verse did not cause any confusion stating that the sun moves:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And the sun runs on to a resting place; that is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knowing.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 38:36]
وَالشَّمْسُ تَجْرِي لِمُسْتَقَرٍّ لَّهَا ذَلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ (38)
-> As I stated, the above verse did not cause any confusion to the Arabs or the enemy of the Quran at the time, because they already thought that the sun runs around the stationary earth, their understanding was the earth is the centre of the heaven.
-> But surely the verse does not talk about the sun running around the earth as it never said that rather the sun runs to an appointed place which is confirmed by the scientific discovery that the Sun moves along a path known as the Solar Apex in the path of the star Vega at an incredible speed of 720,000 km/h. I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m sure many read about this scientific fact.
The verse I want to discuss with you is verse 25:45, this verse starts with a very common Quran sentence ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? أَلَمْ تَرَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, exactly as 13:41 I discussed earlier, which means in the common language ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t you see?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, whenever I see this Arabic words in the Quran I have to stop and read carefully what will follow, definitely it means that Allah is about to tell us a sign "Can't you see?", the signs can vary from a clear visual one to historical one to a simple fact, but what I found that whenever it is a scientific fact it MUST comply with all generations understandings even if their understanding is wrong, like the movement of the sun that I explained above, and that is what I discovered with the help of Allah in verse 25:45.
The verse was stated in a way that does not conflict with whatever understanding at that time and now days with miraculous use of short and briefed Arabic words, we will see that the verse is literally talking about a visual scientific miracle ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????The movement of the shade????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, that the people of the past can see clearly while thinking wrongly the shade moves due to the movement of the sun around earth, we will discover that the verse was talking indirectly about the earth as we all know that the shade movement is a product of the earth movement around its axis and has nothing to do with the movement of the sun
Let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s first look at the verse and see if we can understand any sign from it, it is telling us to investigate closely one of the signs of Allah represented in the movement of shades on earth:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Have you not considered (the work of) your Lord, how He extends the shade? And if He had pleased He would certainly have made it stationary; then We have made the sun an indication of it????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 25:45]
أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى رَبِّكَ كَيْفَ مَدَّ الظِّلَّ وَلَوْ شَاء لَجَعَلَهُ سَاكِنًا ثُمَّ جَعَلْنَا الشَّمْسَ عَلَيْهِ دَلِيلًا (45)
-> The verse starts by telling us to look at the sign of our God through the miracle of the shade movement :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Have you not considered (the work of) your Lord, how He extends the shade?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and in Arabic : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى رَبِّكَ كَيْفَ مَدَّ الظِّلَّ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, very clear meaning in both Arabic and English, simply Allah is telling us to look at the shade of objects as this shade extends from 0 length to infinity and vise versa, then Allah is telling us, if He had pleased to stop the shade from moving He would have done so : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And if He had pleased He would certainly have made it stationary????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, and in Arabic ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????وَلَوْ شَاء لَجَعَلَهُ سَاكِنًا????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, Well, the Quran did not say that Allah will make the Sun stationary to cause the shade to be stationary as the people of the past thought, so I understood it indirectly that Allah meant He would have stopped the earth from rotating around its axis.
But you may say this can be indirectly be valid for the Sun too, i.e to stop the sun instead of stopping the earth according to their understanding at the time that the sun rotates around the stationary earth, which I may agree if the sun was never mentioned in the verse, however what came next in the verse surprised me then stroke me hard, Allah said straight after He said : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????He would have made the shade stationary????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? , He would have made the Sun an evidence of the still shade : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????then We have made the sun an indication of it????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and in Arabic ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????ثُمَّ جَعَلْنَا الشَّمْسَ عَلَيْهِ دَلِيلًا????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> See, Allah said that He will make the shade stationary without saying that He will make the sun stationary, this is an important point, because the Quran clearly said in another location 21:33 that the sun swims in an orbit, i.e. if the Quran has said that the sun will be made stationary to make the shade stationary, no one 1425 years ago would have wondered because their understanding that the sun moves around earth and the Quran also said that the sun swims in an orbit ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????NOT AROUND EARTH????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, but if the Quran has said so i.e the Sun will be made stationary to make the shade stationary then this will conflict with science now days but not back then 1425 years ago, because we all know that the shade movement is a result from the earth rotation around its axis
-> So the Quran said the shade will be made stationary and the sun will be an evidence that it is stationary, WITHOUT SAYING THAT SUN WILL BE MADE STATIONARY
-> Well, any object on earth that have shade is actually part of the rotating earth even the atmosphere is part of the earth, i.e. when Allah said first that He will make the shade stationary, He actually means that He will make the earth stationary around its axis then the sun will be there to prove that the shade ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????and earth????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? are stationary without mentioning earth so no conflict arose with the people 1425 years ago when their understanding that the earth is stationary and can not be stopped because it is stationary
You have to consider that Allah did not need to say He would have made the sun an evidence of the still shade, unless He is telling us a hidden message, I say this because logically speaking we need a source of light to see any shade, and the people used to see the shade when the sun is up in the sky not at night really, so saying He will make the sun an evidence of the still shade has no extra info regarding the shade, rather to eliminate the sun as the source of the shade movement, do you get it mate? it is a tough one I know.
I hope you can see my logic bro, please let me know what you think
and that was about 3/4 of the first page of a two pages thread, the thread got diturbed by a couple but I put it quickly under the control of the Quran. if you would like to see the rest of the thread please lt me know
Status: Age: 42 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Posts: 184 Location: Riyadh
Post subject:
First I would like to thanks you and then I want to see the complete thread.
Second, I do believe that science can change but our Iman has to be towards Allaah, science shouldnt be made as benchmark rather Allaah's Quran thats the SIGNS of Allaah.
Posted:
Thu 16 Nov, 2006 5:31 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam brother SOA
Ok man, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s continue:
I read the link by JK, and then went to search for this word in lisanul 3arab. I see there is this word as understood from the interpretation, but when it comes to breaking it down, you may not find the initial explanation.
It says: yad7u : to spread, as in the verse.....No other example given.
Then we have:
1. mad7a: where the ostrich lays its eggs.(this is a nown of place, so I expect da7a to at least mean 'to make' an egg).
2. madaa7i: (plural) pebbles like those kids paly with.
3.ud7iyyu: a stage of the moon where it looks like ud7iyy of the Ostrich (therefore we have here ud7iyy: ostrich egg at last!)
4. da7w: when the belly is very big and drops downwards
5. da7ya: the leader of soldiers.
6. di7ya: head of a tribe; sayed.
7. yad7u the stone: to throw the stone (only used with stones)
8. rain that yad7u "daa7i": rain that moves pebbles (only).
So we see that this word, or its derivatives are linked indirectly with stones (or pebbles), belly, a stage of the moon between the crescent and the full moon, "head", and ostrich egg. Maybe the original word, which is also the root d7u means a pebble, since we have the verb "yad7u" also means "to throw pebbles": to pebble
Ahmed says regrading the above comment, while I agree that Samia has great Arabic knowledge she only uses the flawed root method to understand the Quran, and this surely will confused many who read her comments, the problem for her flawed root method that many opposoit words will mean the same:
Like Malik (King) and Mamluk (Slave)
And
Salam (Peace or Greating) and Silllim (Ladar)
See
There are many more examples to expose the flawed root method worshipped by the aloners, if you would like to know about it bro but I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m sure a native Arabic speaker like yuo never ever uses this flawed method to understand the meanings of the Arabic words
Brother OM replied to my comment regarding the verse that I believes talk indirectly about the earth rotation:
Salams
Great verse indeed to ponder on.
DALEELAN:
What is the exact meaning of the last word of 24:45 "daleelan"?
Translators have translated this as: evidence, guide, indication, pilot ...
Lets assume "daleelan" means evidence. Lets now analyze what the verse is saying under both scenarios.
SCENARIO 1:
ASSUMPTIONS: Earth rotates on its axis. The sun is relatively stationary.
I am standing outside in a broad day light. I have a shadow. The size of the shadow is continuously changing due to earth's rotation.
Lets say God now wants to make my shadow stationary. The earth stops rotating at that moment.
I will notice that my shadow becomes constant. The stationary sun will notice the same thing.
Both earth and Sun are now stationary. The stationary sun will keep on witnessing this event until the earth starts rotating again.
SCENARIO 2:
ASSUMPTIONS: Earth if flat and stationary. Sun is moving around it.
I am standing outside in a broad day light. I will have a shadow. The size of the shadow is continuously changing due to sun's movement around the earth.
Lets say God now wants to make my shadow stationary. The sun stops moving around the earth at that moment. I will notice that my shadow becomes constant. The sun will winenss that this event as well.
Both earth and Sun are now stationary. The stationary sun will keep on witnessing this event until the Sun starts moving again.
CONCLUSION:
The Sun can witness the stationary shadow in both scenarios.
The "Sun daleelan" part of the verse holds true under both assumptions.
This characteristic of Quran is worth appreciating. God can fit in a verse which holds true under wrong assumptions of 1400s and under known scientific facts of this century.
Did I get it right or is there something else to it?
I replied to OM as follow:
Thank you bro
yes man you got it really right and added some thoughts to it as well, thanks a lot
my only note is this, the Quran never said Allah will stop the earth neither the sun, Allah only said He would have stopped the shade movement, and because the objects on earth are part of the earth, so the verse means indirectly stopping the earth than really stopping the sun, especially we know that the earth rotation around itself is the reason for the shade movement
Daleela means an evidence, but you have to note that the verse didnlt say the sun will be an evidence for the shade, we know that already, the verse clearly say it will be an evidence that the shade has stopped from moving
peace
Now Kyle (Idolfree) came up with something from his matrix:
Peace be upon you,
The ancient Egyptians created the oldest recorded calendar. The mathematics involved with such an accomplishment are at a high level, they certainly knew the earth was round. We have to be careful because certain cultures history are pushed in the face of mankind while others are written out of history or credited to others.
Ahmed says:
Kyle comment is nothing but hearsay, no evidence provided as you can see
Brother OM replied to Kyle as follow:
Salams
Looks like you are right. Greeks knew that the earth is a sphere in 140 AD.
I am not sure if they also knew that it is the earth that is revolving around the Sun.
I am wondering what was the prevailing belief among arabs regarding this subject.
Ptolemy produced a map of a globular Earth as early as AD 140 The ancient Greeks didn't do anything energetic like sailing round the world, but they did sit and think a lot. They not only came up with a realistic theory for the shape of the Earth, they also managed an amazingly accurate calculation of its size using trigonometry.
Around 150 AD, Claudius Ptolemy, a Greek geographer, mathematician, and astronomer, compiled an encyclopedia of the ancient world from the archives of a legendary library in Alexandria, Egypt. His eight-volume Geography included extensive maps of the known world, all based on a curved globe.
See how brothor OM supplied evidences to his comment, Kyle though never do that
Brother CavemanDoctor joined the thread:
Peace Oracle
The Greeks did not know the Earth was revolving around the Sun. The Ptolemaic Universe was a geocentric one, meaning all celestial bodies revolved around the Earth.
It was not until the 15th century that Copernicus espoused the heliocentric view, meaning the planets revolved around the Sun.
I'm not sure how relevant it is but what I find striking is the verse's reference to the Earth being like an egg or an imperfect sphere. Maybe Ahmed can help out with the etymology of the word "Dahaha" but does it have to refer to the Earth itself or can it refer to the Earth's movement (Ahmed said "Dahaha" was a verb, not a noun). The reason I bring this up is because it wasn't until the 16th century that Johannes Kepler found that the Earth revolves around the Sun in an elliptical (i.e. egg-shaped, imperfect circle) orbit rather than a perfect circular one.
This was groundbreaking for science; everyone before him thought the orbits were perfect circles. He showed they were imperfect circles. In fact, this became his famous "First Law of Planetary Motion."
Brother OM replied:
Salams
Yes I agree. Even if people at that time knew that the earth is a sphere, they did not know that it is an imperfect sphere.
Quran alluding the fact that earth (or its orbit) is not a perfect circle is really amazing. Miracles like these strengthen my belief.
I replied to brother CavemanDoctor comment:
Hello mate
it is possible that the verb dahaha may mean making the earth moves in an elliptical orbit, because as i said Daha common use isto make anything in the shape of an imprfect circle
however i see it clearly "the sound of the arabic words on my eyes" that the verse means the earth itself is an imperfect circle
all in all the verse is a clear miracle, because regardless it is about the earth or its orbit, the info was not known 1400 years ago
Allah knows best
Brother agentxxx joined the thread with the following comment:
Peace OracleMir,
you wrote:
وَالأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا
Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha
079:030
Khan- And after that He spread the earth;
Maulana- And the earth, He cast it after that.
Pickthal- And after that He spread the earth,
Sarwar- After this, He spread out the earth,
Shakir- And the earth, He expanded it after that.
Sherali- And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth.
Yusufali- And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
Arberry- and the earth-after that He spread it out,
Palmer- and the earth after that He did stretch out.
Rodwell- And afterwards stretched forth the earth, -
Sale- After his he stretched out the earth,
now comes the man who can see what no man has seen before.
Rashad-He made the earth egg-shaped.
peace.
I replied to agentxxx:
Peace brother Agentxxx
I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t agree bro that the word Dahaha means ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Spread out????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the Quran was clear in using the common Arabic words for spreading out ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Madadnah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? & ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Sotihat????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, both words are commonly used in the Arabic world to mean spread out:
YUSUFALI: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
PICKTHAL: And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein.
SHAKIR: And the earth-- We have spread it forth and made in it firm mountains and caused to grow in it of every suitable thing [The Quran ; 15:19]
وَالأَرْضَ مَدَدْنَاهَا وَأَلْقَيْنَا فِيهَا رَوَاسِيَ وَأَنبَتْنَا فِيهَا مِن كُلِّ شَيْءٍ مَّوْزُونٍ (19)
YUSUFALI: And at the Earth, how it is spread out?
PICKTHAL: And the earth, how it is spread?
SHAKIR: And the earth, how it is made a vast expanse?. [The Quran ; 88:20]
وَإِلَى الْأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ (20)
-> Yes, R K got it right and I accept it from him, despite I disagree with many of his non sense
-> It does not mean that all what Rashad said is wrong, in fact there are many things he said that are right as far as I believe, he must have done so, otherwise he would have no crowd
-> This is like the Quran alone attitude towards the sunni, i.e. whatever the sunni said must be wrong
Which is not the case either
I hope you get this point bro, R K was a native Arabic speaker
Peace
I will skip two comments by agentxxx and me, nothing really much in it
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Brother OM added the following:
Salams Ahmed
Back to "egg" discussion...
I am trying to find references on the internet that would verify that daha (verb) means making something into egg shaped. Perhaps you can help me.
I found this on a website:
"The Arabic word "dahaha" is derived from the root word "dahya" which literally means "egg"."
Here is the problem. The online English to Arabic dictionaries tell me that translation of word "egg" into Arabic is: bayda (instead of "dahya")
Questions for you:
1- Does "dahya" really means egg? Can you give me any reference where this word is used as egg.
2- If (1) is true then, do you think "daha" is derived from "dahya"?
Thanks
I replied to OM:
Peace mate
you are right Baida is the word for an egg, but daha does not mean an egg as far as i know, and if you check my first comment i stated that it is not commonly known as an ostrich egg, but what is common that it is a verb and it is used to mould somthing into a non perfect ball
i live in ausralia mate and i have no access to arabic libraries but i will contact a few friends in egypt and ask them to send me something or direct me to any arabic web site that discuss the issue
for the second question, i don't know man but as far as i remember that when i was a child we were collecting the seeds of the apricot fruit to play with and i think we were calling the game we play Dahya, but it sounded to me as name of a game nothing more
Then I added the following comment:
Hello OracleMir
I contacted my friend that read this verse with me about 20 years ago and he suggested a few online arabic to arabic dictionaries but the font does not seem to veiw at all and could not read one letter, however if you look at the link posted by another brother in this thread which is a pdf file from a dictionary with all the possible meanings for daha, you will read that when you you say Dahaha "the word is written in arabic but the explanation is in english", it means he compressed it, so it sounds to me as the earth was compressed at the poles by Allah
peace
Brother OM replied:
Thanks brother, for going out of your way and for all efforts!
Brother Tanveer joined the thread:
Peace all,
According to the link provided by brother Wakas, in Lane Lexicon the following are some of the definitions given for "daha" and derivatives:
Usage: God made the earth wide or ample; also said of an ostrich, he expanded or made wide with his foot or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs, making cavities in the ground like those of bellies; said of a man, he spread, and made plain, even, or smooth; also, he threw or cast, and impelled, PROPELLED, or REMOVED FROM ITS PLACE, a stone with his hand;
DAHAHA: He COMPRESSED her
DAHA AL-BATN: The belly was or became large and hanging down; it became SWOLLEN or INFLATED, or big, and hung down, by reason of fatness or disease.
INDAHA: it (belly) became wide or DISTENDED.
The meanings in relation to earth in the qur'aan could be that it was made swollen, inflated, or distended, and also could be that the earth was propelled, removed from its place, like a stone thrown by the hand. So "daha" in relation to earth could be referring either to the shape of the earth (like that of a distended, swollen, inflated belly, hung down, or like that of the cavities in ground, shaped like bellies, dug by ostriches to lay their eggs, both of which imply it not being a perfect circle) or it could be referring to its elliptical orbit (like the trajectory of a stone propelled by throwing it by one's hand).
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