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Post subject: 2:106 (word "nansakh")
The corruption of the word "nansakh" as in 2:106
The corruption of the word "nansakh" has been a major tool for the the introduction of the false concept of "Quranic Abrogation", for full details on that subject please see: www.quran-islam.org/89.html
The traditional Muslim interpreters interpret the word "nasakha" to mean abrogate, however by a simple study of the related Quranic verses we are able to confirm that this meaning is quite inconsistent with the Quranic use of the word. To arrive at the correct meaning of this word, and how it is used by God in the Quran, we must examine all the Quranic verses where this word (and its derivatives) has been used.
Altogether, there are four different verses where this word has been used and they are:
2:106, 22:52, 45:29 and 7:154.
Let us start with 45:29 as it is the most obvious of the four verses:
45:29 "This is our record; it utters the truth about you. We have been "nastansikh" everything you did."
Now let us substitute the word "nastansikh" with the word abrogate (as they claim), here 45:29 would read:
"This is our record; it utters the truth about you. We have been abrogating everything you did."
Immediately, it becomes obvious that this meaning is totally wrong. The words "this is our record" confirm that the word "nastansikh" here means "we have been writing down, or recording", and not abrogating.
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7:154 "When Moses' anger subsided, he picked up the tablets, and in "nuskhatiha" is guidance and mercy for those who reverence their Lord."
Once again, if we substitute the word "nuskhatiha" with the word (its abrogation) the verse would have no meaning, for how can the abrogation of the words of the tablets have guidance? However, if we substitute the word "nuskhatiha" with the word (its record) then the verse would make perfect sense. Consequently, the correct meaning of 7:154 is:
"When Moses' anger subsided, he picked up the tablets, and in their record is guidance and mercy for those who reverence their Lord."
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22:52-53 "We did not send before you any messenger, nor a prophet, without having the devil interfere in his wishes. God then "yansakh" what the devil has done. God perfects His revelations. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.
He thus sets up the devil's scheme as a test for those who harbor doubts in their hearts, and those whose hearts are hardened. The wicked must remain with the opposition."
Almost all translations fall for this specific use of the word "yansakh" and translate it as to abrogate, however the correct meaning cannot be obtained unless we read 22:52 and also 22:53.
In 22:53 God tells us that he "yansakh" what the devil has done, then God follows that by telling us in 22:53 that He sets what the devil schemed as a test for the ones who harbour doubt in their hearts. Now let us pose a while here and contemplate on this meaning,. If the word "nansakh" means (we abrogate) or nullify, then how can the devil's scheme be set up as a test? How can any human be tested by something that has already been nullified?
This, once again, confirms that God in actual fact allows the devil's scheme to stand so as to serve a test for the ones who harbour doubt in their hearst. This once again confimrs the correct meaning of the word "yansakh" so as to mean "to record". Thus the correct meaning of 22:52-53 is:
22:52-53 "We did not send before you any messenger, nor a prophet, without having the devil interfere in his wishes. God then records what the devil has done. God perfects His revelations. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.
He thus sets up the devil's scheme as a test for those who harbor doubts in their hearts, and those whose hearts are hardened. The wicked must remain with the opposition."
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And now, by returning to 2:106, we are able to confirm the correct meaning of the word "nansakh" in this glorious verse, the correct meaning would be:
2:106 "When We record any ayat, or cause it to be forgotten, We produce a better one, or at least an equal one. Do you not recognize the fact that God is Omnipotent?"
# i have had a similar view on the word nansakh in 2:106...and then i came across this article....initially i was in full agreement with it but of late i have been wondering about it....what do peepz in here think about this write-up? (-:
Posted:
Fri 09 Feb, 2007 12:48 am
SlaveofAllaah Site Admin
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Good one, bro one of the articles for the non-arabs. Well brother Ab is required on this point urgently. Please.
Posted:
Fri 09 Feb, 2007 2:54 am
The Rook
Status: Age: 111 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
Quote:
slaveofallaah wrote:
Good one, bro one of the articles for the non-arabs. Well brother Ab is required on this point urgently. Please.
# i agree bro.... (-:
...till then, what are ur thuts on the write-up?
# btw...do u think this is the proper section for this thread..or should it be under the "examine" section? if u (or other mods) think "examine" is a better section then do move the thread over to it! (-:
Posted:
Fri 09 Feb, 2007 3:58 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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sorry friends for not replying soner to this one, but before I do, I have to say that abrogation in the Quran is a lie
Status: Age: 42 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Brother The, Class discussion is fine. The article covers the complete, concept of word nansukh. Overall the acceptability factor is, the author h as analysed the entire Quran wrt this word.
Brother AB, we muslims are being fooled and we tend to argue on this lie and prove our point. Shame on us.
Posted:
Sat 10 Feb, 2007 7:56 pm
The Rook
Status: Age: 111 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
Quote:
slaveofallaah wrote:
Brother The, Class discussion is fine. The article covers the complete, concept of word nansukh.
# cool bro! (-:
Quote:
Overall the acceptability factor is, the author h as analysed the entire Quran wrt this word.
# i agree brother...the author has tried to uphold consistency (of translation) and the context of the verses! (-:
...what do u and bro ahmedbahgat and others think of "record" as a transation...can u think of some other possible translations? (-:
Posted:
Sun 11 Feb, 2007 6:28 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
SlaveofAllaah wrote:
Brother AB, we muslims are being fooled and we tend to argue on this lie and prove our point. Shame on us.
You kinow why?
Because the Muslims are as humans as the Jews and Christians, all are the enemy of Satan
so if Satan manged to follow all these masses of jews and christians, why it is strange for the muslims that he did the exact same to us?
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Salam all
I need to refine my understanding regarding the word Nasakh, I stated earlier in this post that it means to write down which is still valid and common meanning, however It also has another meaning which is to abolish, so I stand corrected, here is a reply I made on FFI to someone asking about the abrogation in the Quran:
condemned02 wrote:
I can't seem to find the answer for this. Sorry if it's been asked before.
This abrogation rule is important since it supposingly cancels out any good verses in the Quran
The question though is, it looks like the Quran is worded all over the place, so how can I identify which verses are before abrogation and which verses are after abrogation? How do you tell?
Abrogation is man made and is the biggest lie about the Quran, there is no such thing and sure there is no Quran verse that is abrogated
then I added this comment:
One day in the past Mohammad received a few verses from Jebril, the verses were talking about those three idols ?????????????????????¢??Allat, Aluzzah and Manat?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, these verses are the subject of the satanic verses by Salman Rushdi, the alleged verses goes like this:
{ أَفَرَأَيْتُمُ اللَّاتَ وَالْعُزَّى وَمَنَاة الثَّالِثَة الْأُخْرَى }
The first line is real verses in the Quran 53:19-20, the second however was what Satan tried to flaw Mohammad with, the second means like sort of praising those stone statues and wrongly highlighting their importance, let me bring the real verses first:
19: Have you seen the Lat and the Uzza,
20: And Manat, the third, the last?
21: What! for you the males and for Him the females!
22: This indeed is an unjust division!
23: They are naught but names which you have named, you and your fathers; Allah has not sent for them any authority. They follow naught but conjecture and the low desires which (their) souls incline to; and certainly the guidance has come to them from their Lord. [The Quran ; 53:19-23]
أَفَرَأَيْتُمُ اللَّاتَ وَالْعُزَّى (19)
وَمَنَاةَ الثَّالِثَةَ الْأُخْرَى (20)
أَلَكُمُ الذَّكَرُ وَلَهُ الْأُنثَى (21)
تِلْكَ إِذًا قِسْمَةٌ ضِيزَى (22)
إِنْ هِيَ إِلَّا أَسْمَاء سَمَّيْتُمُوهَا أَنتُمْ وَآبَاؤُكُم مَّا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ بِهَا مِن سُلْطَانٍ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَمَا تَهْوَى الْأَنفُسُ وَلَقَدْ جَاءهُم مِّن رَّبِّهِمُ الْهُدَى (23)
-> When Mohammad wrongly recited the verses as Satan tried to flaw him, the Mushrikoon rejoiced and liked Mohammad, however, Jebril later on informed Mohammad with what Satan did to him, of course it caused a lot of distress to the prophet, anyway as you can see above from the real verses that Allah indeed condemns those man mad gods.
The above story was the reason for a few verses to be revealed, those verses are actually talking about the NASKH concept, which we will see it means that the wrong verses are totally replaced by the true verses, i.e. the abrogated verses are not included in the quran , let?????????????????????¢??s see how Allah informed us with this fact about Naskh
52: And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah abolishes that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise,
53: So that He may make what the Shaitan casts a trial for those in whose hearts is disease and those whose hearts are hard; and most surely the unjust are in a great opposition,
54: And that those who have been given the knowledge may know that it is the truth from your Lord, so they may believe in it and their hearts may be lowly before it; and most surely Allah is the Guide of those who believe into a right path.
55: And those who disbelieve shall not cease to be in doubt concerning it until the hour overtakes them suddenly, or there comes on them the chastisement of a destructive day. [The Quran ; 22:52:53]
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رَّسُولٍ وَلَا نَبِيٍّ إِلَّا إِذَا تَمَنَّى أَلْقَى الشَّيْطَانُ فِي أُمْنِيَّتِهِ فَيَنسَخُ اللَّهُ مَا يُلْقِي الشَّيْطَانُ ثُمَّ يُحْكِمُ اللَّهُ آيَاتِهِ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ (52)
لِيَجْعَلَ مَا يُلْقِي الشَّيْطَانُ فِتْنَةً لِّلَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ وَالْقَاسِيَةِ قُلُوبُهُمْ وَإِنَّ الظَّالِمِينَ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ (53)
-> verse 52, we read what the Shaitan is always keen to do with all the messengers :?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire?????????????????????¢??, that is exactly as in the case of the satanic verses explained earlier, what Allah is going to do to protect the integrity of His messengers is simple, Allah will simply ?????????????????????¢??Yansakh?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? DELETE, ABOLISH, not really abrogate as many lie about the meaning of the word Yansakh, here is what Allah did to the satanic verses in Arabic ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? فَيَنسَخُ اللَّهُ مَا يُلْقِي الشَّيْطَانُ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????Fa YANSAKH Allah Ma Yulqi Al Shaitan?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? ; but Allah abolishes that which the Shaitan casts,?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? , i.e. the verses WERE DELETED BY ALLAH, do we see the satanic verses in the Quran?, well, I posted the Quran verses above 53:19-23, again kafirs or confused Muslims, do we see the satanic verses in the Quran?, i.e. the action of NASKH is simply, not including it in the Quran., if Naskh means to include it in the Quran but ignore it then this is a massive contradiction on its own. What we should notice that till this day, the kafirs still argue about those satanic verses despite they are not found in any Quran, they must be sick kafirs indeed, well, this is what Allah told us in the following verse: ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? So that He may make what the Shaitan casts a trial for those in whose hearts is disease and those whose hearts are hard;?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, they are certainly sick, they are following something that was never part of the Quran ?????????????????????¢??DELETED?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? by Allah, yet they lie and claim it is part of the Quran., sort of when we tell them sorry what you are talking about is not part of the Quran yet they oppose it ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? and most surely the unjust are in a great opposition?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, LOL, ok kafirs, can you show me the satanic verses in any Quran?.
As we have seen above the action of Naskh means to abolish/delete/not include, let me now look at the verse you mentioned (2:106), I will leave the words that I?????????????????????¢??m disputing with the kafirs and the confused Muslim untranslated (underlined:
Whatever Ayah We Nansakh or cause it to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things? [The Quran ; 2:106]
مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللّهَ عَلَىَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ (106)
-> Ok mate, the first words are مَا نَنسَخْ , ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????Ma Nansakh?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. according to 22:52 that was explained earlier the words should mean ?????????????????????¢??WHATEVER WE DELETE?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, or ?????????????????????¢??WHATEVER WE ABOLISH?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? i.e. if whatever is about a verse in the Quran then that verse was DELETED/ABOLISHED and does not exist in the Quran neither it ever existed in it from day one. However I disagree that the word Ayah in this particular verse means VERSE, in fact it can never mean VERSE as I will show, the WHATEVER that was DELETED/ABOLISHED is stated as follow: مِنْ آيَةٍ , i.e. ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????Min Ayah?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, now the word Ayah common meaning is Sign, the Quran used it numerously as such , however the traditionalists claim that the word Ayah in the above verse means a VERSE from the Quran
Here is an example for the word Ayah that means a Sign:
He said, My Lord, give me an Ayah. He said, Your Ayah is that you will not speak to people for three consecutive nights. [The Quran ; 19:10]
Here is another example that it means a Sign:
And the folk of Noah, when they disbelieved the messengers, We have drowned them and set an Ayah (example) of them for all people. [The Quran ; 25:37]
Another example goes like this:
And We supported Moses with nine great Ayaat. [The Quran ; 17:101]
But I also don?????????????????????¢??t deny that the word Ayah can also mean a verse in the Quran, here is an example:
This is a book that We have sent down to you that is sacred, perhaps they will reflect on its Ayaat (verses). [The Quran ; 38:29]
To solve this slight problem we need to look deep in 2:106 for any hints that can confirm if the word Ayah means a Sign or a Verse
-> the next words after what I discussed so far is a clear hint, here it is: ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? أَوْ نُنسِهَا?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????Aw Nunsiha?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????or cause it to be forgotten ?????????????????????¢??, now, this can not be applicable if the word Ayah in this verse means a VERSE in the Quran. How can a verse in the Quran be forgotten?
Even if the verse was abrogated by another (as the traditionalists falsely claim), it will still be part of the Quran and therefore can never be forgotten. i.e. the word Ayah in 2:106 has to mean a Sign
-> The following words also give us a couple of hints that the the word Auah can not mean an abrogated verse in the Quran in this particlular verse, the words are: ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????Naat Bi Khair Minha Aw Mithliha?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? We bring one better than it or like it.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, firstly Bi Khair Min means ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????BETTER ONE THAN?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. and according to their understanding, Allah will bring another verse that is better than the original verse but I have to say that this action by Allah does not deny that the original verse is bad that should not be followed, rather the new one is better. Secondly, the word Aw Mithliha means OR IDENTICAL TO IT now, I have to ask, how can you abrogate a verse with an identical verse?, does not add up indeed
From those three compelling hints the word Ayah in 2:106 CAN NOT MEAN A VERSE IN THE QURAN, yet even if they insist that it does THEN THE WORD YANSAKH MEANS THAT THE ORIGINAL WAS DELETED AND IS NOT PART OF THE QURAN ANY MORE EXACTLY AS THE SATANIC VERSES.
By applying the common meaning ?????????????????????¢??a sign?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? to the word ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????Ayah?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? in 2:106, then all the words of the verse would make perfect sense. The words ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????cause it to be forgotten?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? can apply to the meaning a sign that is what normally happens as time passes by. Many signs mentioned in the Quran are actually forgotten by many even existing or past signs. The believers however only believe in past signs because they are mentioned in the Quran and if they were not then it will be forgotten to them.
Also the words "We bring one better than it or like it" should be valid with the signs of God, let?????????????????????¢??s look at the following verses:
46: And certainly We sent Musa with (Ayaatina) Our Signs to Firon and his chiefs, so he said: Surely I am the messenger of the Lord of the worlds.
47: But when he came to them with (Ayaatina) Our signs, behold they laughed at them.
48: And We did not show them (Ayah) a sign but it was greater than its like, and We overtook them with chastisement that they may turn. [The Quran ; 43:46-48]
وَلَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا مُوسَى بِآيَاتِنَا إِلَى فِرْعَوْنَ وَمَلَئِهِ فَقَالَ إِنِّي رَسُولُ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ (46)
فَلَمَّا جَاءهُم بِآيَاتِنَا إِذَا هُم مِّنْهَا يَضْحَكُونَ (47)
وَمَا نُرِيهِم مِّنْ آيَةٍ إِلَّا هِيَ أَكْبَرُ مِنْ أُخْتِهَا وَأَخَذْنَاهُم بِالْعَذَابِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ (48)
-> See above how the word Ayah was used 3 times (once in each verse), can you see how it can only mean a sign and can not mean a verse in the Quran?, in 43:48 we read that Allah kept sending signs which were: ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? We did not show them (Ayah) a sign but it was greater than its like?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
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