Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
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Post subject: Does Islam mean Peace or Submission to Allah?
Hello All
Many confused Muslims insist on promoting a lie regarding the meaning of the words ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Islam????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Muslim and ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Muslimah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, they lie and say it means peace, they never backed up their claim from the Quran though and when they do they manipulate the clear Arabic words to serve their low desires, on the hand other hand the Quran clearly tells us that it does not mean peace, rather full submission to Allah.
There is no doubt that a God knowledgeable and fearing herson who is reading the Quran will easily recognise that Islam means to submit to Allah, the Arabic word on its own means to submit to any entity and that is based on the 4 letters verb "Aslam",it can only mean to submit to Allah and His Will
A simple example to the submission to Allah is this, if I get hit by a horrible disease then I should not cry myself out for my bad luck rather cry to Allah for help, and that is how I submitted to Him because that it is what Allah wanted to happen to me and He is the only One that can cure me, exactly as what happened to prophet Ayub when he was hit with a horrible disease:
83- And Ayub, when he cried to his Lord, (saying): Harm has afflicted me, and Thou art the most Merciful of the merciful.
84- Therefore We responded to him and took off what harm he had, and We gave him his family and the like of them with them: a mercy from Us and a reminder to the worshippers. [The Quran ; 21:83-84]
وَأَيُّوبَ إِذْ نَادَى رَبَّهُ أَنِّي مَسَّنِيَ الضُّرُّ وَأَنتَ أَرْحَمُ الرَّاحِمِينَ (83)
فَاسْتَجَبْنَا لَهُ فَكَشَفْنَا مَا بِهِ مِن ضُرٍّ وَآتَيْنَاهُ أَهْلَهُ وَمِثْلَهُم مَّعَهُمْ رَحْمَةً مِّنْ عِندِنَا وَذِكْرَى لِلْعَابِدِينَ (84)
-> See, Ayub was in no where near any peaceful status, he was crying to Allah, after been hit with a horrible disease and as far as I read from the history, it was a skin disease, all people around him were disgusted and ran away from him, that is why we read in 21:84, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Therefore We responded to him and took off what harm he had, and We gave him his family and the like of them with them: a mercy from Us and a reminder to the worshippers.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
How many of you cry to Allah when you get hit with the flu?, see, many of us don't even do it and we just go to the doctor thinking that the doctor will be the one to help us, I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m not saying that we should not go to the doctor, because Allah causes the reasons, but we should submit 100% that Allah was the one that caused the flu to hit us and Allah will be the one to the outcome of going to the doctor works, this is another example of how we submit to Allah, even if we loose a leg, a hand, paralysed, got blind, heart disease etc etc, all these horrible things that has no peace whatsoever, we should submit that it is from Allah and cry for Him to help us and give us the strength to live with these horrible fitnahs (tests)
The Quran is very clear in defining the two different words : Salam, and Islam, as [/b]greeting/peace[/b] for the first and submission for the second, it even gave us an example of a human submitting to another human, which means in that example ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????submission????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? or ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????surrender????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, but when it comes to using the word with the religion, then it only means SUBMISSION TO ALLAH AND HIS WILL, peace is no where in that meaning of the religion name, in fact the Quran ordered us to fight for our religion and again obeying that order is another example of the submition to Allah, sure there is no peace whatsoever in wars, the war may lead to peace of course, but in the majority of cases it does not.
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And Musa said: O my people! if you believe in Allah, then rely on Him (alone) if you submit (to Allah).????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 10:84]
وَقَالَ مُوسَى يَا قَوْمِ إِن كُنتُمْ آمَنتُم بِاللّهِ فَعَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلُواْ إِن كُنتُم مُّسْلِمِينَ (84)
-> To submit to Allah we have to rely on Him: then rely on Him (alone) if you submit (to Allah)., no peace mentioned
Here is the example of a human submitting to another human:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Saying: exalt not yourselves against me and come to me in submission.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 27:31]
أَلَّا تَعْلُوا عَلَيَّ وَأْتُونِي مُسْلِمِينَ (31)
-> In 27:31 we see that the word ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Muslimeen????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? was used as an adjective????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? to describe Solomon????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s order to Sheba and her people as an action to surrender to him, this verse can have double meanings, it can mean to surrender to him ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????as in power????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and it can also mean to ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????surrender with him to Allah in Islam (submission)????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, and can mean both at the same time.
The verse below can be understood exactly as above:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????He said: O chiefs! which of you can bring to me her throne before they come to me in submission?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 27:38]
قَالَ يَا أَيُّهَا المَلَأُ أَيُّكُمْ يَأْتِينِي بِعَرْشِهَا قَبْلَ أَن يَأْتُونِي مُسْلِمِينَ (38)
-> To surrender to Solomon in power or to Surrender with Solomon to Allah in Islam (submission)
I prefer the menaing of "to surrender in power" because "To Allah" was not mentioned rather "To Solaiman"
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our Allah and your Allah is One, and to Him do we submit.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 29:46]
وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَهُنَا وَإِلَهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ (46)
-> In 29:46 we see that the already believers should say to the people of the book that they BELIEVE in the one God, and TO HIM they SUBMIT, this is very important verse because IN Allah we believe, and ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????لَهُ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, TO HIM we submit, CLEAR AS LIGHT ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Lahu Muslimoon????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> We can also see that the verse has an order of aggression towards the enemy of Allah: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, this is a clear non peaceful order towards the unjust from the people of the book
19- ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
20- ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????But if they dispute with you, say: I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people: Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 3:19-20]
إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللّهِ الإِسْلاَمُ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوْتُواْ الْكِتَابَ إِلاَّ مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَاتِ اللّهِ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ (19)
فَإنْ حَآجُّوكَ فَقُلْ أَسْلَمْتُ وَجْهِيَ لِلّهِ وَمَنِ اتَّبَعَنِ وَقُل لِّلَّذِينَ أُوْتُواْ الْكِتَابَ وَالأُمِّيِّينَ أَأَسْلَمْتُمْ فَإِنْ أَسْلَمُواْ فَقَدِ اهْتَدَواْ وَّإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَإِنَّمَا عَلَيْكَ الْبَلاَغُ وَاللّهُ بَصِيرٌ بِالْعِبَادِ (20)
-> Well, what can I say, in 3:19 we read: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ie, Islam was used as a NOUN, then it was explained further as an action in 3:20 ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? I have submitted myself entirely to Allah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the prophet never said IN PEACE as the confused Muslims lie.
Let me go back to Solomon story to show you that the queen of Sheba came to Solomon after she surrendered to his power firstly, we will see that she also declared her submission TO Allah with Solomon:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????It was said to her: Enter the palace; but when she saw it she deemed it to be a great expanse of water, and bared her legs. He said: Surely it is a palace made smooth with glass. She said: My Lord! surely I have been unjust to myself, and I submit with Sulaiman to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 27:44]
قِيلَ لَهَا ادْخُلِي الصَّرْحَ فَلَمَّا رَأَتْهُ حَسِبَتْهُ لُجَّةً وَكَشَفَتْ عَن سَاقَيْهَا قَالَ إِنَّهُ صَرْحٌ مُّمَرَّدٌ مِّن قَوَارِيرَ قَالَتْ رَبِّ إِنِّي ظَلَمْتُ نَفْسِي وَأَسْلَمْتُ مَعَ سُلَيْمَانَ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ (44)
-> Whatever Solomon was believing in, she must has followed it because she submitted to his power first and came to him and when she arrived and was more stunned she declared HER SUBMISSION TO ALLAH AFTER ARRIVAL: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????and I submit with Sulaiman to Allah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
83- ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek (to follow), and to Him submits whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
84- ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Say: We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
85- ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 3:83-85]
أَفَغَيْرَ دِينِ اللّهِ يَبْغُونَ وَلَهُ أَسْلَمَ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ طَوْعًا وَكَرْهًا وَإِلَيْهِ يُرْجَعُونَ (83)
قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ (84)
وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الإِسْلاَمِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ (85)
-> ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????أَسْلَمَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????to submit????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? was expressed in the verse that it is an action by all creatures in the heaven and earth, these verses should also refute the suggestion that Islam means ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????greeting with peace????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and NOT ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????To Submit to Allah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? , because we read in 3:83 that all these creatures were either given the choice OR FORCED to ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Submit to Allah????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and because Force is place then it has to be to submit not to submit in peace: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَلَهُ أَسْلَمَ مَن فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ طَوْعًا وَكَرْهًا????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ie. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and to Him submits whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And who has a better religion than he who submits himself entirely to Allah? And he is the doer of good (to others) and follows the faith of Ibrahim, the upright one, and Allah took Ibrahim as a friend.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 4:125]
وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ دِينًا مِّمَّنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لله وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ واتَّبَعَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَاتَّخَذَ اللّهُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ خَلِيلاً (125)
-> Again ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And who has a better religion than he who submits himself entirely to Allah,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? note the repeated words ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????TO ALLAH????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, and also note that in peace was never mentioned when Aslam was used, i.e. we never read submit to Allah in peace
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And return to your Lord time after time and submit to Him before there comes to you the punishment, then you shall not be helped.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 39:54]
وَأَنِيبُوا إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ وَأَسْلِمُوا لَهُ مِن قَبْلِ أَن يَأْتِيَكُمُ الْعَذَابُ ثُمَّ لَا تُنصَرُونَ (54)
-> Here we go, we were threatened if we don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t submit to Allah then: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and submit to Him before there comes to you the punishment, then you shall not be helped.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, see, no peace in here, it is a clear cut threat from Allah.
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Say: I am forbidden to serve those whom you call upon besides Allah when clear arguments have come to me from my Lord, and I am commanded that I should submit to the Lord of the worlds.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 40:66]
قُلْ إِنِّي نُهِيتُ أَنْ أَعْبُدَ الَّذِينَ تَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ لَمَّا جَاءنِيَ الْبَيِّنَاتُ مِن رَّبِّي وَأُمِرْتُ أَنْ أُسْلِمَ لِرَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ (66)
-> The same said by the prophet that: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and I am commanded that I should submit to the Lord of the worlds.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, he never said to submit in peace to Allah
In the followings lots of Quranic evidences we will see clearly that this concept of Islam to mean Peace is flawed and can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t stand any sense, We will see that when The Quran wanted to talk peace or greeting, the context clearly confirmed as such, we will also see a clear evidence that this flawed root method of using the root ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????S L M????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? to interpret the meaning of the Islam must contradict many verses in the Quran, but if Islam means Submission to Allah period, there will be no contradiction nor confusion in the Quran, and finally we will see that Islam is the most desired level for believers to achieve i.e., a Muslim is a higher level than a Mumin, i.e. you can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t be a Muslim without being a Mumin:
68- O My servants! there is no fear for you this day, nor shall you grieve.
69- (Being) those who have believed in Our Signs and bowed (their wills to Ours) in Islam (Submission).
70- Enter the garden, you and your wives; you shall be made happy. [The Quran ; 43:68-70]
يَا عِبَادِ لَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْكُمُ الْيَوْمَ وَلَا أَنتُمْ تَحْزَنُونَ (68)
الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِآيَاتِنَا وَكَانُوا مُسْلِمِينَ (69)
ادْخُلُوا الْجَنَّةَ أَنتُمْ وَأَزْوَاجُكُمْ تُحْبَرُونَ (70)
-> The verses above describe what will happen to the outright winners on the Judgment Day, we can read clearly in 43:69 the Arabic words : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِآيَاتِنَا وَكَانُوا مُسْلِمِينَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, which clearly means ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Those who BELIVED in our signs and were submitters????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, therefore they needed to believe in the signs and they were also submitters, some may say, ok but ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Muslimeen????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? may mean ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????they needed to be peaceful????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????.
I say, when the Quran is talking peace, the context is clear that it is about peace :
Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your deeds. [The Quran ; 47:35]
فَلَا تَهِنُوا وَتَدْعُوا إِلَى السَّلْمِ وَأَنتُمُ الْأَعْلَوْنَ وَاللَّهُ مَعَكُمْ وَلَن يَتِرَكُمْ أَعْمَالَكُمْ (35)
-> See, the word used was ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? السَّلْمِ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? which means ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Peace????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, accompanied with a warning NOT to be : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????weary and faint-hearted, crying for PEACE,, because :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you, and will never put you in loss for your deeds.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, this verse should refute those Muslims who promote giving unconditional peace to our enemy, as well it should refute those who say Islam means Peace because we are encouraged NOT to seek peace with our enemy as shown in the verse, but I agree that to be peaceful is part of Islam but only with the peaceful ones:
And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing. [The Quran ; 8:61]
وَإِن جَنَحُواْ لِلسَّلْمِ فَاجْنَحْ لَهَا وَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ (61)
-> Very clear context in addition to the clear Arabic word that means peace ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? سَّلْمِ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Peace????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the verse should also refute those who say a Muslim should be peaceful with anyone including the enemy, we are only ordered to incline to peace IF they incline to peace, they are the perpetrators anyway who started attacking us, makes great sense to me.
We read in another verse the word????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? سُلَّمً????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? which means ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Ladder:
And if their turning away is hard on you, then if you can seek a tunnel into the earth or a ladder (to ascend up) to heaven so that you should bring them a sign and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have gathered them all on guidance, therefore be not of the ignorant. [The Quran ; 6:35]
وَإِن كَانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيْكَ إِعْرَاضُهُمْ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَن تَبْتَغِيَ نَفَقًا فِي الأَرْضِ أَوْ سُلَّمًا فِي السَّمَاء فَتَأْتِيَهُم بِآيَةٍ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَجَمَعَهُمْ عَلَى الْهُدَى فَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ (35)
Or have they a ladder, by which they can (climb up to heaven and) listen (to its secrets)? Then let (such a) listener of theirs produce a manifest proof. [The Quran ; 52:38]
أَمْ لَهُمْ سُلَّمٌ يَسْتَمِعُونَ فِيهِ فَلْيَأْتِ مُسْتَمِعُهُم بِسُلْطَانٍ مُّبِينٍ (38)
-> Now the Arabic word for Ladder have the same root ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????S L M????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? exactly, how come thjose confused Muslims don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t take it as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Peace????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? then?
If the above is not enough to refute the supporters of the flawed root method then here is another surprise for them, I also know as a native Arabic speaker that ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????سلم????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? ALSO MEANS ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????To deliver????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, THIS IS VERY COMMON IN THE ARBIC WORLD, the Quran also used it as such in one location, it was translated as ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Paid????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? though, which I believe is the wrong translation and should be ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Delivered????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah: for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom. [The Quran ; 4:92]
وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ أَن يَقْتُلَ مُؤْمِنًا إِلاَّ خَطَئًا وَمَن قَتَلَ مُؤْمِنًا خَطَئًا فَتَحْرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةٍ وَدِيَةٌ مُّسَلَّمَةٌ إِلَى أَهْلِهِ إِلاَّ أَن يَصَّدَّقُواْ فَإِن كَانَ مِن قَوْمٍ عَدُوٍّ لَّكُمْ وَهُوَ مْؤْمِنٌ فَتَحْرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةٍ وَإِن كَانَ مِن قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ مِّيثَاقٌ فَدِيَةٌ مُّسَلَّمَةٌ إِلَى أَهْلِهِ وَتَحْرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةٍ فَمَن لَّمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ شَهْرَيْنِ مُتَتَابِعَيْنِ تَوْبَةً مِّنَ اللّهِ وَكَانَ اللّهُ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا (92)
I guess the root method advocates need to explain to us how Peace can fit in 6:35, 52:38 and 2:92?
And finally we read in another verse that when the Quran is read to the TRUE BELIVERS, they will submit to Allah:
Nor can you lead away the blind out of their error. You cannot make to hear any but those who believe in Our revelations/signs so they shall submit. [The Quran ; 30:53]
وَمَا أَنتَ بِهَادِي الْعُمْيِ عَن ضَلَالَتِهِمْ إِن تُسْمِعُ إِلَّا مَن يُؤْمِنُ بِآيَاتِنَا فَهُم مُّسْلِمُونَ (53)
-> Very clear brothers and sisters : ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? but those who believe in Our revelations/signs so they shall submit.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? , see they believed first then submitted second
There is no doubt that those who manpilute the meaning of the name of the religion "Islam" are not following the religion of Islam rather the feel good religion they made for themselves, it is sad though that they use the Quan to justify their clear cut maniplations
Salam to All
PS: I mean by Salam all, just a mere greeting, it has noting to do with peace _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Mon 01 Jan, 2007 2:40 am
The Rook
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# and below is the source from which these internet munafiqs get their "interpretation", and then distort the quran to make it agreeable to their kufr:
According to Crone and Cook the term Islam (and the corresponding word Muslim) in the sense of "submission to God" was borrowed from the Samaritans (Crone-Cook 1977:19-20). Crone and Cook maintain that "the verb aslama has cognates in Hebrew, Aramaic and Syriac, but whereas neither Jewish nor Christian literature provides satisfactory precedent for the Islamic usage, we find exact parallels to Islam in [the Memar Marqah], which is the most important Samaritan text of the pre-Islamic period." (Crone-Cook 1977:19,169; Macdonald 1963:85) They go on to say that, "the plausible sense of the root to invoke here is that of peace' and the sense of to make peace.' The reinterpretation of this conception in terms of the ultimately dominant sense of submission' can readily be seen as intended to differentiate the Hagarene covenant from that of Judaism." (Crone-Cook 1977:20)
# the line under the text added by me!
## as v can see.....these munafiqs simply steal ideas from the work of other disbelievers and try to present them as the lost (proper) understanding! : grin :
Posted:
Wed 17 Jan, 2007 5:37 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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The wrote:
# and below is the source from which these internet munafiqs get their "interpretation", and then distort the quran to make it agreeable to their kufr:
According to Crone and Cook the term Islam (and the corresponding word Muslim) in the sense of "submission to God" was borrowed from the Samaritans (Crone-Cook 1977:19-20). Crone and Cook maintain that "the verb aslama has cognates in Hebrew, Aramaic and Syriac, but whereas neither Jewish nor Christian literature provides satisfactory precedent for the Islamic usage, we find exact parallels to Islam in [the Memar Marqah], which is the most important Samaritan text of the pre-Islamic period." (Crone-Cook 1977:19,169; Macdonald 1963:85) They go on to say that, "the plausible sense of the root to invoke here is that of peace' and the sense of to make peace.' The reinterpretation of this conception in terms of the ultimately dominant sense of submission' can readily be seen as intended to differentiate the Hagarene covenant from that of Judaism." (Crone-Cook 1977:20)
# the line under the text added by me!
## as v can see.....these munafiqs simply steal ideas from the work of other disbelievers and try to present them as the lost (proper) understanding! : grin :
I wonder bro, do those munafiqoon aware of what they are doing?, I always want to understand how they are inside _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 17 Jan, 2007 7:01 am
The Rook
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# all they are trying to do is create fitna...i ve seen many non-muslims use the works of warnsbrough and crone and the likes to spread their disbelief....and the fact that they pretend to be muslims makes them personify the word munafiq!
## as for their "insides"...hmmm...i think all munafiqs are same...they do not believe in god and the quran so they dont think anything is amiss when they manipulate the quran and lie about it...it's like the quran says about them: la yaalamun
# take care bro! (-:
Posted:
Mon 29 Jan, 2007 12:30 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Hello All
Here is anther good one:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our Allah and your Allah is One, and to Him do we submit.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? [The Quran ; 29:46]
وَلَا تُجَادِلُوا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْهُمْ وَقُولُوا آمَنَّا بِالَّذِي أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَأُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُمْ وَإِلَهُنَا وَإِلَهُكُمْ وَاحِدٌ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ (46)
-> In 29:46 we see that the ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????already????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? believers should say to the people of the book THAT THEY BELIEVED in the one God, and TO HIM they submit, this is very important verse because IN Allah we believe, and ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????لَهُ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, TO Allah we submit, CLEAR AS LIGHT ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Lahu Muslimoon????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? which happened after they believed in him as Moses asked the jews to do in 10:84
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Hello All
Here is another good one:
Say: We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit. [The Quran ; 3:84]
قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ (84)
-> Another compelling verses that shows Islam is a status that is reached after decalring the belief, see how the order was TO SAY WE BELIEVE, under the flawed understanding that To submit is less than to believe then the above verse is a clear cut contradiction "God forbids" because in 49:14, it says "don't say we believe", but here it says "say we believe", see
-> We can also read that after they decalred their belief they decalred their submission to Allah at the end of the verse, another compelling evidence that Submitting to Allah is higher than believeing in Allah
i.e. not every believer is a submitter to Allah
and very submitter to Allah must be a believer in Allah
this makes sense to a child
you can't submit to Allah before you believe in Him
let me say it in another way in case we have children reading this thread
you can only submit to Allah after you beliive that He exists
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Hello All
Here another good one:
68- O My servants! there is no fear for you this day, nor shall you grieve.
69- (Being) those who have believed in Our Signs and bowed (their wills to Ours) in Islam (Submission).
70- Enter the garden, you and your wives; you shall be made happy. [The Quran ; 43:68-70]
يَا عِبَادِ لَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْكُمُ الْيَوْمَ وَلَا أَنتُمْ تَحْزَنُونَ (68)
الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِآيَاتِنَا وَكَانُوا مُسْلِمِينَ (69)
ادْخُلُوا الْجَنَّةَ أَنتُمْ وَأَزْوَاجُكُمْ تُحْبَرُونَ (70)
-> See how it 43:69 says those who believed and submitted, i.e. belief is first then submission is second
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Hello All
Here is a killer of an argument :
Nor can you lead away the blind out of their error. You cannot make to hear any but those who believe in Our revelations/signs so they shall submit. [The Quran ; 27:81]
وَمَا أَنتَ بِهَادِي الْعُمْيِ عَن ضَلَالَتِهِمْ إِن تُسْمِعُ إِلَّا مَن يُؤْمِنُ بِآيَاتِنَا فَهُم مُّسْلِمُونَ (81)
What else I can say brothers and sisters with Albab (brains)?
well here it is in big letters
"إِلَّا مَن يُؤْمِنُ بِآيَاتِنَا فَهُم مُّسْلِمُونَ", i.e. "but those who believe in Our revelations/signs so they shall submit.", can yuo can you see the word SHALL?
I.E. They believed first then they shall submit second
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Tanveer said on FM:
Peace all,
Here the "fluent" Arab is deliberately mistranslating the words of The God which is a killer proof that he is a great deceiver:
The correct translations are:
27:81 PM translation: Nor can you guide the blind from their misguidance. You can only make those who believe in Our revelations hear you, for they have surrendered.
Yusuf Ali:Nor canst thou be a guide to the blind, (to prevent them) from straying: only those wilt thou get to listen who believe in Our Signs, and they will bow in Islam.
This again shows that believer and submitter at same time. There is no "thumma" in this verse.
Now the "fluent" Arab is stooping to new lows !!
STRIKE #5 ............. Keep them coming !!
This verse actually describes the "fluent" Arab quite well "Nor can you guide the blind from their misguidance" _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Mon 19 Feb, 2007 6:00 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Hello all
Let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s now look at some logical arguments that should demolish the ignorance promoted by some so called Muslims, the following verses should knock their ignorance once and for all:
Here is Ibrahim and his son Ismail (who are already believers in Allah) asking Him to make them Submitters
Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. [The Quran ; 2:128]
رَبَّنَا وَاجْعَلْنَا مُسْلِمَيْنِ لَكَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِنَا أُمَّةً مُّسْلِمَةً لَّكَ وَأَرِنَا مَنَاسِكَنَا وَتُبْ عَلَيْنَآ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ (128)
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, remember that Ibrahim believed in Allah before he had any children when he had the argument with his father earlier, look again at this verse and see how they are asking Allah (Whom they believe in already) to make them submitters to Him, i.e. a submitter is a status that comes after believing and not all believers will succeed to reach it that is why they asked Allah to help them to reach it
Knock down # 1
Now we read (the already believer Ibrahim) submitted a couple of verses later:
131- When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.
132- And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims. [The Quran ; 2:131-132]
إِذْ قَالَ لَهُ رَبُّهُ أَسْلِمْ قَالَ أَسْلَمْتُ لِرَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ (131)
وَوَصَّى بِهَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بَنِيهِ وَيَعْقُوبُ يَا بَنِيَّ إِنَّ اللّهَ اصْطَفَى لَكُمُ الدِّينَ فَلاَ تَمُوتُنَّ إَلاَّ وَأَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ (132)
-> See how Ibrahim submitted to Allah after he believed in Him: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
-> Now here is the funny one that exposes those ignorant who claim, you can be a Muslim while not being a believer, see how Ibrahim enjoined his family :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? فَلاَ تَمُوتُنَّ إَلاَّ وَأَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? , therefore die not unless you are Muslims.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????,
hmmm, according to those ignorant so called Muslims, we can die without believing then, all we need to do is say, we submit to the lord of the worlds, sounds funny.
Obviously Ibrahim advice to his (already believing) family is to reach the highest level of belief which is submitting to Allah as it happened to him exactly, i.e. when you are a Muslim you are already a believer, however you can be a believer (you can see millions around you) but not a Muslim yet
Knock down # 2
That order that we should try hard to reach the upmost level of belief which is submitting to Allah was given to the ALREADY BELIEVERS, as we can see CLEARLY below:
O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah with the care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslims. [The Quran ; 3:102]
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ اتَّقُواْ اللّهَ حَقَّ تُقَاتِهِ وَلاَ تَمُوتُنَّ إِلاَّ وَأَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ (102)
-> What else I can say, see the verse is directed at the already believers :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? O you who believe????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the same said by Ibrahim to his already believing family is said to all the believers in this verse: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَلاَ تَمُوتُنَّ إِلاَّ وَأَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and do not die unless you are Muslims.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????,
i.e. there are believers who die without becoming Muslims,
i.e. Islam comes after believing
i..e. every Muslim is a believer
i.e. not every believer is a Muslim
Knock down # 3
Hmmm, three knock downs in one round, that is a knock out
The silly argument that submission to Allah happens before believing in Him is dismissed and the case must be rested for life
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Tanveer said on FM:
Peace all,
The "fluent" Arab, who does not know two of the meanings of "lamma", is again trying to deceive and mislead others !!
This is what a believer is according to al-qur'aan:
According to 49:15, 8:2-4, 2:2-5, 28:53-54, 2:177, 4:103, 2:183, mumins (faithful, truthful, righteous, believers) have the following traits:
a. They have faith and trust in The God
b. They have faith in the messengers
c. They have faith in the angels
d. They have faith in all The God's revelations
e. They have faith in the unseen
f. They have faith in the Last Day and certainty regarding the hereafter
g. They attain the status of having no doubt whatsoever
h. They counter evil works with good works
i. They strive with their lives and money in the way of The God
j. Their hearts tremble when The God is mentioned
k. Their faith is strengthened by hearing The God's revelations
l. They uphold the timed/regular salaat
m. They give to charity
n. They contribute to betterment/zakaat.
o. They fast for periods of time to establish patience
p. They free the slaves
q. They keep their word whenever they make a promise
r. They steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war
According to this definition of al-qur'aan, one can be a mumin only if one has ALL the above traits. Any element missing from the above traits and they are not mumins. Thus if Abraham only believed in The God, does not make him a mumin !!
Now let us consider 28:53-54
28:53 And if it is recited to them, they Say: "We believe in it. It is the truth from our Lord. Indeed, we had submitted BEFORE it."
28:54 To these We grant twice the reward for that they have been patient. And they counter evil with good, and from Our provisions to them, they give.
According to 28:53, one can be a submitter even without believing in al-qur'aan, and according to 28:54, believer will have twice the reward, so believer is at a higher level than submitter.
Now let us consider the following verses:
2:62 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabiens, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.
5:69 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabiens, and the Nazarenes, whomever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good work; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.
These verses are clearly telling us that whoever believes in The God and the Last Day and does good work will have nothing to fear and if one dies in that state one will be rewarded. According to 2:132 people are advised to die as muslims. Putting 2:62, 5:69, 2:132 together, it follows that:
Muslim = whoever believes in The God and the Last Day and does good works.
Remember that to be a mumin one is required to have all the traits mentioned above earlier, and believing only in God and the Last Day DOES NOT MAKE ONE A MUMIN.
Thus all mumineen are muslimeen (confirmed by 22:77-78) but all muslimeen are not mumineen.
Now if we see the story of Abraham, he believed in The God and at that stage when he was not a mumin as he still lacked many other traits of a mumin as explained above, he was ordered to submit to The God which he did and became a muslim. Thus clearly he was a muslim at that stage but not a mumin yet. This clearly shows that one can be a muslim before one is a mumin, and if one dies in this state (believing in God and the Last Day and doing good deeds), one will be rewarded. Of course, later Abraham must have become a mumin also, and even when he was a mumin he was still also a muslim !
STRIKE #1 and #2 for AB
I have shown above how all mumineen are muslimeen per 22:77-78, so when they die they die as muslimeen and that is what 3:102 is saying. If a mumin dies as a muslim, it does not mean that muslim is a higher level which would also contradict 28:54.
According to 22:77-78, mumin is also a muslim, so a mumin can never die without being a muslim ! For example if an ordinary human becomes a king and he dies as a king, he also dies as a human !! This proves that 3:102 does not contradict a mumin being at a higher level than a muslim as mentioned in 28:53-54.
Islam cannot come after iman because that will contradict 28:53 and 49:14, however, iman can come after islam per 28:53 and 49:14.
Thus every mumin is a muslim, but every muslim is not a mumin.
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Hello All
Here is another lie by this manipulated deceiver:
See what the confused liar said above :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? In my understanding, the underlined portion above are the MINIMUM requirements of islam.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Now here is the Arabic verse and you never see the word Islam in it:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحاً فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ (62)
He is such a clear cut liar and a manipulator, the two verses above never talked about Muslims or any status of Submission, in fact both of them are talking about the BELIEVERS, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Al Lazina Amanu????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, read it again please to see how this deceiver has no shame to mislead his brothers and sisters motivated by extreme jealousy
i.e. the verses above are talking about the BELIEVERS, but the deceiver said :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? are the MINIMUM requirements of islam????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? where he got this lie from?, sure he made it up to suit his low desires as everyone can see
how come the above two verses will be talking about Islam if they are CLEARLY TALKING about Iman?
That low human should go and burry his pin and confused head in a toilet somewhere then he should flush it
Sorry admin, he brought it to himself and I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m going to hammer him to expose his lies to everyone
He kept attacking me and you did nothing about it and now it is time to pay, however I still used his evidences to prove that he is a clear cut liar ands a deceiver, I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m sure having liars and deceivers on this web site are not something good for it
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Tanveer said on FM:
Peace all,
As everyone can notice, 2:62 and 5:69 also mention jewish, nazarenes and sabiens and not only believers, and everyone knows that the system is named islam in al-qur'aan so all the portions talking about the system and all qur'aanic teachings imply islam.
Also according to 22:77-78, mumins are directly called muslims so 2:62 also talks about muslims as it talks about mumins.
The "fluent" Arab who doesn't know 2 meanings of "lamma" and proved himself to be blind above, struck out again.
AB, keep doing it to yourself and keep it coming _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Mon 19 Feb, 2007 6:07 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
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Hello all
Let me show a compelling proof that that guy is a deceiver, a liar, an ignorant and a fabricator:
He is telling us below in red that Ibrahim is not a Mumin rather a Muslim:
Quote:
a. They have faith and trust in The God
b. They have faith in the messengers
c. They have faith in the angels
d. They have faith in all The God's revelations
e. They have faith in the unseen
f. They have faith in the Last Day and certainty regarding the hereafter
g. They attain the status of having no doubt whatsoever
h. They counter evil works with good works
i. They strive with their lives and money in the way of The God
j. Their hearts tremble when The God is mentioned
k. Their faith is strengthened by hearing The God's revelations
l. They uphold the timed/regular salaat
m. They give to charity
n. They contribute to betterment/zakaat.
o. They fast for periods of time to establish patience
p. They free the slaves
q. They keep their word whenever they make a promise
r. They steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war
According to this definition of al-qur'aan, one can be a mumin only if one has ALL the above traits. Any element missing from the above traits and they are not mumins. Thus if Abraham only believed in The God, does not make him a mumin !!
Now we read in anther verse that Allah asked Ibrahim ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????IF HE BELIEVED????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? IN GENERAL NOT ONLY IN GOD and Ibrahim responded ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????YES????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
And when Ibrahim said: My Lord! show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said: What! and do you not believe? He said: Yes, but that my heart may be at ease. He said: Then take four of the birds, then train them to follow you, then place on every mountain a part of them, then call them, they will come to you flying; and know that Allah is Mighty, Wise. [the Quran ; 2:260]
وَإِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ رَبِّ أَرِنِي كَيْفَ تُحْيِي الْمَوْتَى قَالَ أَوَلَمْ تُؤْمِن قَالَ بَلَى وَلَكِن لِّيَطْمَئِنَّ قَلْبِي قَالَ فَخُذْ أَرْبَعَةً مِّنَ الطَّيْرِ فَصُرْهُنَّ إِلَيْكَ ثُمَّ اجْعَلْ عَلَى كُلِّ جَبَلٍ مِّنْهُنَّ جُزْءًا ثُمَّ ادْعُهُنَّ يَأْتِينَكَ سَعْيًا وَاعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ (260)
See, above ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? : What! and do you not believe? He said: Yes,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, Allah never asked Ibrahim ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????do you not believe in Me?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? rather ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????do you not believe?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, I,e, Ibrahim was a believer and later on he became a Muslim along with his son Ismail as the Quran told us
Who should we believe, Allah in His Quran and His clear Arabic words
Or that liar, low, deceiver and manipulator who promotes non sense about the Quran trying hard to look smart?
Remember that he invented something called the min requirement to be a Muslim, that was funny guys
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
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Hello All
Let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s look at the following verse that should expose that manipulator of a jerk
Certainly Allah conferred a benefit upon the believers when He raised among them a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His communications and purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the wisdom, although before that they were surely in manifest error.
See the verse is talking about the Mumineen ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Certainly Allah conferred a benefit upon the believers when He raised among them a Messenger from among themselves, reciting to them His communications and purifying them, and teaching them the Book and the wisdom,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Now according to that ignorant deceiver, before thief belief they should be Muslims, and that in no way can be a status of manifest error, however Allah is telling us that those believers before they believer were in manifest error ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? although before that they were surely in manifest error.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, how come being a Muslim before being a believer is a status of manifest error for all those believers?
Surely you need to believe in someone before you submit to him, and before you believe you are in manifest error not a Muslim
See how the Quran is exposing that ignorant manipulator of a lying low human?
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